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The sit-down meeting of Tucker Carlson and Russian ideologue and nationalist Alexander Dugin was not coincidental. One of the United States鈥� most prominent right-wing media figures and Russia鈥檚 far-right thinker with alleged ties to the Kremlin were bound to find an echo chamber in each other, a fact not overlooked by the Kremlin.

The  was published by the Tucker Carlson Network on April 29, but exactly when it took place is unknown. The two men may have run into each other in one of the Russian administration鈥檚 waiting rooms during Carlson鈥檚 visit to Moscow in early February to interview Putin, then cameras fortuitously appeared.

More likely is that Carlson, invited to Moscow by the media arm of the presidential administration, was introduced to some pro-Kremlin speakers of choice. The Kremlin has been promoting Dugin for a long time, but especially after Russia launched its full-scale war against Ukraine. 

Whatever the logistics of the engagement may turn out to be, the rhetoric if not the substance of the chat fuels right-wing grievances in the United States and unfortunately is amplified by political pundits.

Carlson explains that he could not help but  the thoughts of the Russian philosopher, which, he said, struck him deeply. He posted the interview to YouTube, where he has two million followers.

Why Dugin?

Dugin is important to the Kremlin because he is a radical pro-war agitator. In May 2014, after Russia鈥檚 annexation of Crimea, Dugin gave an interview to a Donetsk-based media outlet in which he : 鈥淜ill, kill, kill those who allow atrocities in Ukraine!鈥� That happened after forty-two anti-Maidan and pro-Russia activists  in the Ukrainian city of Odesa during pro-Russia protests that turned deadly. 

Dugin鈥檚 position on Russia鈥檚 occupation of Ukraine鈥檚 territories is, , 鈥渙pposition to the junta and Ukrainian Nazism that exterminates civilians.鈥� He is also an ardent supporter of Russian president Vladimir Putin鈥檚 steps 鈥渋n his confrontation with Kyiv and Washington.鈥�

In August 2022, Dugin鈥檚 daughter, Daria, was killed in a car bomb attack that, according to U.S. intelligence agencies, was organized by 鈥減arts of the Ukrainian government.鈥� Thus Alexander Dugin turns out not only to be a producer of ideas pleasing to Putin but also to have lost a family member to the cause. 

鈥淚n his interview, Dugin chose a safe strategy that gives Carlson鈥檚 audiences a bearded Russian intellectual critiquing some Western doctrines,鈥� says Alexander Morozov, a fellow at Charles University in Prague, Czech Republic. 鈥淭his image would ring the bell for some of the Western publics. Dugin鈥檚 work is diverse, it has many branches, some of which would scare the uninitiated. He has dealt with apocalypse, millenarianism, occultism, and the problematics of conservative revolution. But in this interview, he is entirely focused on critiquing liberalism, on stating that liberalism is in crisis.鈥�

Dugin鈥檚 Positions

Dugin in this interview is playing to the curiosity of Western listeners, on the one hand, and the interests of the Kremlin authorities on the other. Essentially, his position is that liberalism鈥檚 universalist (鈥済lobalist,鈥� to use Dugin鈥檚 term) agenda takes its unwitting followers away from the collective identities of old鈥攖he empire, the nation, the family, and a clearly defined gender. Through artificial intelligence, Dugin says, liberalism is threatening to break the last collective identity standing, human personhood itself. 

In this discussion, even the use of the term 鈥渓iberalism鈥� is questionable. Perhaps sensing this, Dugin calls his target 鈥渢he new liberalism.鈥� 鈥淏asically, he is providing some ground for Putin鈥檚 frustration with gender-neutral bathrooms,鈥� Morozov says, referring to the fact that Russian officials distill their understanding of the 鈥渄ecadent West鈥� to the existence of all-gender bathrooms. 鈥淗e is helping the Kremlin authorities buttress their case for the unprovoked attack on Ukraine and the West.鈥�

What Dugin left out of the Carlson interview is his conspiracy mongering, conspiratorial antisemitism in particular. After a terrorist attack at Crocus City Hall, a music venue near Moscow last March, Dugin implied that the Mossad might be involved. 鈥淲e shouldn鈥檛 rule out any possibilities beforehand,鈥� he . 鈥淔or example, this could be the Zionists鈥� retaliation for Russia鈥檚 stance on Gaza.鈥�

Misdirects by Carlson

Carlson introduces his interlocutor as a thinker whose books cannot be bought on Amazon, a thinker who is effectively banned in the United States. 鈥淗e is a writer who writes about big ideas,鈥� Carlson says. These 鈥渂ig ideas鈥� are too 鈥渄angerous鈥� for the Biden administration, which is why, according to Carlson, it is prohibiting them. 

The facts say otherwise. At least four of Dugin鈥檚 books are currently available on the Amazon website, albeit in Russian, a Daily Beast reporter . One of his books is available in English for Kindle. 

As in his , Carlson does not ask Dugin about repression in Russia, about political prisoners or journalists jailed for long sentences for 鈥渋ncorrect鈥� descriptions of the war in Ukraine, or about the hundreds of thousands of political emigrants who have fled their country under threat of criminal prosecution. Dugin was sanctioned by the U.S. Treasury Department for helping recruit people to fight on behalf of Russian forces in eastern Ukraine. Carlson mentions none of this.

But he agrees with Dugin when the latter talks in all seriousness about the threat of a robot uprising and the need to return to traditional values and collectivism.

鈥淲e have no other option. Either Matrix, or Artificial Intelligence, or something or Terminator,鈥� Dugin says. But it turns out there is still another option鈥擵ladimir Putin. 鈥淧utin is a traditional leader, 鈥� someone with a nuclear weapon [who] stands strong defending traditional values.鈥�

During the twenty minutes of the interview, Tucker nods along with Dugin鈥檚 speechifying, and at various point agrees: 鈥淲hat you鈥檙e describing is clearly happening and it鈥檚 horrifying!鈥� He asks a question about 鈥渢he phenomenon鈥� of 鈥渉atred鈥� directed toward Russia by the West鈥攁s if the reason for that were not Russia鈥檚 attacks on neighboring states, its destruction of entire cities, leading to countless deaths, and the killing of Putin鈥檚 political opponents. No, the reason is that Putin defends family values. 

In this way Carlson pushes the Kremlin鈥檚 line, and in way that resonates with the hard-right factions in America. This should worry all Americans as the presidential election draws near.

The opinions expressed in this article are those solely of the author and do not reflect the views of the Kennan Institute.